After retiring from Cloud Gate, Lin Hwai-min thought his everyday posture would simply be “sitting.” But for a group of circus performers whose vitality reminded him of resilient mangroves, he rolled up his sleeves once again and returned to the rehearsal studio—this time with FOCASA Circus. He had no interest in lofty theories. His one rule was simple: “How can a circus not have clowns?” He asked the performers to learn how to “perform failure,” and even stated outright: “We’re going to make a production that can make money.” After One to One Hundred became both a critical and popular success in Taiwan and Hong Kong, Lin sat down with Chen Wu-Kang, founder of HORSE Dance Theatre, who had just returned from creating work in Hong Kong. Their conversation ranged from Mayday’s song Stubborn, to the nine red chairs stacked into a towering structure onstage, and even to the performers’ post-show recovery routine: soaking in ice baths backstage, then returning to the hotel to soak in hot water in portable bathtubs. These seemingly incidental details reaffirm a conviction Lin Hwai-min has held throughout his life: in the performing arts, “without obsession, there is no true artistry.” Theatre makers cannot shut themselves away in an ivory tower; like Uber, they have to bring art directly to people’s doorsteps.